You Want A Player Boyfriend, Trust Me

Ah, Happen Magazine. I love these people. Really mainstream dating advice that’s so watered down it’s useless or just plain inaccurate. See this article, “Are you dating a player?” The author, Dustin Goot, gives us the 5 signs of a player versus 5 signs of a nice guy. Here’s me taking him to task…

5 signs of a player

He’s bold. True, all players are bold. This is totally a good thing. I mean, who wants a shy guy? Beta. Shy equals wussy. Shy equals indecisive. Shy equals lousy in the sack. Nuff said.

He declares his feelings right away. Bullshit! Big time! Players do not make sweeping statements of affection, because we know this doesn’t work. Not only that, but players are chill and cool, and if we’re really good, we might not actually feel attraction for a woman because she hasn’t proven to be worth our affections. Physical beauty alone does not impress us.

Goot also mentions that it’s normal for a guy to be guarded about his emotions. Right, wussy guys. Players are actually excellent at articulating emotions and have fewer problems communicating than regular dudes. That’s part of being a social master.

He always plans romantic dates. Dude, you’re kidding, right? What crappy chick flick did you get this from? We DO NOT plan romantic dates, ever, at all, because that shit doesn’t work. If you’re lucky we won’t make you pay our bar tab before we have sex with you in the club bathroom.

He has lots of acquaintances, no close friends. Again, total bullocks. I don’t even see how friendships are relevant to playerism. I guess Goot is suggesting that players are so shallow that they can’t maintain platonic relationships. Whatever. Players have plenty of friends. We usually have more friends than normal, chodey dudes. This includes female friends. We’re cool guys. People want to be around us.

He’s a thrill seeker. Sometimes true, but how is this relevant to being a player? Guys who kite surf and heli-ski are interesting and mega-attractive. Real players enjoy pickup and the company of women because we love women, not because we get a rush from seduction, although we get that too. Who doesn’t get a rush from the process of attraction?

5 signs of a chode nice, upstanding guy

He’s goofy. You mean socially incompetent. That’s what you actually meant to say. Because goofy, and by goofy I mean being fun and playful, is like the primary characteristic of a player. If you read any piece of pickup literature, you’ll see that our greatest weapons assets are humor and playfulness. Because we know that chicks dig that.

He remembers personal details and events. Um, not sure where to start with this. Nice guys might remember your birthday (or not), but we’ll definitely remember everything you tell us. We’re seducers, remember? We’re using that info to get into your pants. Duh. Illiciting values. Ever heard of it?

He treats his mama right. Christ. Don’t bring my mama into this.

He can mingle. Actually, he can’t. Beta guys are socially incompetent. Ever had a Nice Guy boyfriend who said he didn’t like crowds? Or wanted to leave early from the party because he’s a wallflower? Yeah, that’s right, because he’s beta and doesn’t know how to socialize. Players are the minglers and the socializers, not the other way around.

He says, “I love you.” I have to quote Goot here word for word:

As fawning as a player’s affections are, there’s still something sacred about the L-bomb. Kalish found that insincere men would say, “I want to grow old with you,” or “I want to have children with you,” but “I love you” remained somehow off limits. A guy who says those three magic words may very well mean them.

You know what the problem is here? Players will not say, “I love you,” because they know the difference between love and lust. That’s what you get with experience. A chode doesn’t know the difference (because they’re socially incompetent), and will drop the L-bomb with any chick he gets lucky enough to have sex with. Big reason why there are so many shitty relationships…incompetent men (and women) who think they’re in love when really they’re too ignorant and lazy to realize they’re a poor match and not really attracted to each other. If a player says love, he means it, because he knows what he’s doing.

Girls, get yourself a player boyfriend. You’ll love the fact that he’s socially adept, fun, and knows how to treat women. Boys, if you’re a massive chode, go read The Game and then get yourself on the path of Playerism, and by that I mean mastering your social life. Nice guys fumble around and download porn. Players give money shots to the hotties.

cleavage2.jpg

Photo credit Tampa Bay Times
(Excuse me, ladies. But do either of you like nice guys? No? Great, who wants to have sex in the bathroom?)

  • http://40ssingleness.blogspot.com/ lisaq

    Don’t even get me started on nice guys…ugh! Truly nice guys often end up in the friend zone. Self proclaimed nice guys are usually assclowns in sheep’s clothing.

    I think you’ve definitely hit the nail on the head with their socially incompetence. What woman wouldn’t rather spend her time with a man who’s charismatic and fun to be with? No brainer.

    lisaq’s last blog post..Mr. Unavailable & The Fallback Girl

  • http://www.hotalphafemale.blogspot.com Hot Alpha Female

    Shiite your one funny guy lance – man there are so many sarcastic convos i could have with you right now. lol

    Neways I must admit, that when I saw that title of this post … I was kinda like .. are you serious??!!

    But coming to think of it, I kind of see what you are getting at. Players are much more interesting guys and they certainly are much more socially apt.

    With that being said, that’s making the assumption that there are just nice guys and then there are players … that its black and white and there is no shade of grey.

    Because firstly there are different types of nice guys .. I had something to back that up with .. but ill just forgot it .. so ill move onto my next point.

    N then there are so called players. But what defines a player neways? is that just a guy who has heaps of girlfriends .. or dates heaps of chicks. Like what makes him a player …

    As a general rule .. I basically classify guys that know how to act around chicks as players … that puts PUAs and naturals into that category.

    With that being said, it would be great to have a guy who was genuine, respectful, knows how to build attraction and isn’t a skank and a half. lol

    HAF

    Hot Alpha Female’s last blog post..Does Being Real Seal The Deal?

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    HAF, you clearly need a player and not a nice guy.

    As you’ve blogged about before, there are many different types of players out there. PUA’s, social artists, naturals, seducers, whatever. I think the vast majority of guys who dedicate themselves to social mastery are just regular dudes who want to have choice and find a nice girlfriend. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. A very small subset of guys are world class PUA’s and have the skill to bed hundreds of women (I’m not in this group). And an even smaller subset of guys use their skill purely to get sex and abuse women. As with any form of empowerment, there are going to be abusers.

    Point is, social mastery is a good thing, for guys AND for women. Charisma, social intelligence, communication ability, these are attractive qualities and makes a better man. I don’t define a player as a man who has heaps of chicks, but rather a man who knows how to play the game.

  • http://roxispua.blogspot.com Roxis

    Holy shit can these ‘player’ signs be wrong. It just went from bad to worse to what? I’m trying to somehow connect anything they are saying with the “player” lifestyle. Who wrote this brain dead bull shit.

    A nice summary and follow up though. ;)

    Roxis’s last blog post..OR: I Lost Control

  • http://www.hotalphafemale.blogspot.com Hot Alpha Female

    Very well said lance. And I see where you are coming from.

    With that said I like how you defined players. Using your definition then I would happily date a player.

    But like you said there are a lot of guys out there who abuse their new found “power” and those are the guys I really want to stay away from.

    HAF

    Hot Alpha Female’s last blog post..Does Being Real Seal The Deal?

  • http://cheekiebacktalk.blogspot.com cheekie

    What I find truly interesting about this post, and much of this kind of discussion, is how suddenly it comes down to ‘players’ vs ‘nice guys’.
    Interesting because back in ‘da day’ the players you described above would just be considered confident.
    And the nice guys as described above would probably still be classified as nice guys, but, dateless ‘geeks’.
    So, since when does it mean a guy is a ‘player’ if he is confident, gentlemanly and knows how to show a lady a good time?
    To me, a player is a guy who goes from date to date, makes you feel like there could be ‘more’ (ie dishonest), never calls, makes you feel like you should be ‘honoured’ he asked you out, but still seems to have a bevy of vacuous females surrounding him. (the abuse of power guys that HAF mentions)…
    I know a lot of ‘nice guys’ that, given half the chance, would be the players you have described.
    And I hope they read this post, cause there are a lot of nice guys that could use a wee bit of playerness, and then I would happily date them.
    But let’s just call it confidence… and that is always more attractive.
    :-)

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  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    Cheekie, unfortunately the term player has a bad connotation, but really I see it as just a guy who knows how to play the game. So, by my definition, several of your friends would be defined as players. The bad guy you described above is just an asshole/asshat/douchebag, however you want to call it. Playing the game itself is intrinsically neutral.

    George Clooney, by most reports, is a major player. Is he a good guy or an asshole? I don’t know the man personally, but I perceive him to be a good guy. My guess is he treats his abundance of women very well.

    I didn’t get into this in my post, but there’s a massive gray area in reference to social savvy. Obviously, there’s more to it than the lowliest chode vs. the ultimate player. Some players are just regular (nice) guys who have some skill. Some players are assholes who just want sex, and should be avoided unless you like that type of thing…and trust me, plenty of women do.

    I think the best kind of player is a regular joe who has greatly increased his social skill, and uses that skill to give himself choice in his dating life. This doesn’t mean he HAS to sleep with dozens of chicks, although it could if he really wanted. His goal MIGHT be to get a girlfriend, but it could be any number of things. What he doesn’t do is consciously fuck over women (because players love women & people in general), and generally he would be described as a “cool guy.” He also doesn’t stress over dates or singleness because he knows there’s plenty out there.

    The vast majority of men are regular joes (ie nice guys) who have little social skill. Some of them are alone and lonely. A few of them are freaks. Many of them are in mediocre relationships. Most of them are harmless. When tested, in a relationship sense, these men will fail, because they lack knowledge and experience. You can spot these guys a mile away, because they are poor communicators, emotionally unavailable (credit NML), and often times lacking in masculinity.

  • http://cheekiebacktalk.blogspot.com cheekie

    Well put, Sir Lance, well put!!!

    Respect, confidence, well- they always win. Chode-ness/assclown-ness never win in the long run. Oh sure, you might ‘bag a few’, but, word travels quickly…and frankly would you want to be with the woman who wants to be with that???? Yuck.
    I must say, the same should and could be said for some women.
    I know many many many who only date for the free dinners, and the arm candy.
    That isn’t respect, and frankly shows a very unattractive lack of confidence.
    Regardless of motives, chances are you’ll always go farther with honey over vinegar…guess Mom was right.

  • http://theseductionbible.com Mike Stoute

    Well said daddy, you have to earn that money shot!

    Mike Stoute’s last blog post..Drake’s Tech Tips – Shoes Off

  • http://themodernsavage.com Matt Savage

    Bravo!! Lance, this was a great post. Honestly, I am so sick of the main stream media complete bullshit perceptions of pick up artists. The Goot must be stopped!

    I think one of the big problems here is that so many people have different definitions and perceptions of what is a “PUA”, “player” and “nice guy”. Also, I think a lot of people confuse a pua/player with a douche bag…big difference! I’m not sure that the world will ever come to a consensus.

    Matt Savage’s last blog post..The Mr. Bubble Number Close

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  • Pierrette

    Saying a player is just a cool guy with confidence goes against general perception – you’ll never win that battle! Calling night day and day night, etc. Most people think of a player as a guy who lies and manipulates to get what he wants – a borderline sociopath. In other words, a player is defined by his motive and intention, not his level of social skill.

    I see the whole player phenomenon as parallel to women who follow The Rules and just as pointless. Learning to act ‘as if’ you are confident is no substitute for really having confidence in yourself and, sooner or later, the player or rules-girl gets into a situation where the tricks and routines don’t work anyway and they have to fall back into neediness or bitching, because they still haven’t learned anything else.

    Don’t waste time playing games! Be real! Putting on an act only sets yu up to fail and be exposed as a sham. Be honest with yourself first and you’ll have more confidence with other people too.

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    Pierrette, thanks for commenting! Your comment is exactly the type we’re looking for, that is a differing perspective.

    You are correct, men who lie and manipulate to get sex are sociopaths, and are to be avoided. As with any other group, you’re going to have abusers, idiots, and sociopaths. 99% of players, or men who have “good game,” are not these men. Most guys who get into the game are just regular dudes who want to do the following:
    1. Have more options dating.
    2. Date great women who would normally disqualify these regular guys.
    3. Develop their emotional and social intelligence.
    4. Become a better person.

    You might find that hard to believe, but it’s true. Most pickup programs begin and end with “inner game,” that is the development of self.

    As you’ll see in my FB field report, I use a variety of tactics, but nothing in there is disingenuous. I’m true to myself, doing activities that are fun, and generating attraction at the same time. No one got hurt and no one was lied to. In fact, Amber was thrilled to have met me, because she thought I was a “cool guy.” (At least I think she thinks I’m cool…)

    Players have a bad rap and pickup is in desperate need of an image makeover. That’s part of the reason why I blog, because I want people to understand that increasing your social skill is a tremendous gift to men and women.

  • http://honeyandlance.com Honey

    Pierette, I TOTALLY get where you are coming from. Back before we started this site, when Lance and I were just duking it out over e-mail, he started telling me about PUA and I was just DISGUSTED. I’d think, “Well, even if you did meet a great girl using those techniques, how long could it last? If you ever TOLD the girl that you used those techniques on her she’d run away screaming, as well she should.” I was like the women I describe in my “Why ladies really hate players” blog on this site.

    However, Lance has gradually gotten me to see that guys who aren’t confident can’t gain confidence overnight. If you’ve experienced nothing but failure, or if you don’t have the skill set to even try, then you’re never going to simply be confident out of nowhere. The point of the game as I see it is to learn some techniques that will get you through most situations so that you can experience success and start building true self-confidence. PUA also gives you a vocabulary to analyze your failures so that you can understand why things went sour and start to put your own spin on it all.

    This is why I think ladies could learn a lot from PUA. If they knew how it worked, then they could use it not only to build confidence themselves (true confidence, not “the rules” manipulation), but also to weed out the inevitable sociopaths.

    Thanks for your comment!

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  • Pierrette

    Thanks, Lance and Honey, for your replies. I admit I wasn’t sure if I was off with my comment. I’m all in favor of people – men and women – having more confidence, sexually and otherwise, and I know – believe me, I know! – that it isn’t easy to get there from being a ‘nice guy/gal’.

    Okay, so the whole player idea is like self-help for guys … I think I get that … so is the emphasis on mastery and control just a way of selling it to the male ego? Obviously, a book called Men Who Don’t Love Enough And Need To Get Some Balls wouldn’t sell too well. In fact, a book called Women Who Insist On Projecting Their Adolescent Fantasies On Every Man They Meet wouldn’t have been much of a success either! The consumer needs a little flattery before parting with their cash.

    I can also see that ‘acting’ confident can sometimes increase feelings of confidence, eg using positive body language in a job interview. But the skills needed for getting the job and for being able to do it are not the same. I read on another site advice to a man who had learned a technique for being more alpha male in approaching women and, as a result, now had a girlfriend – but he found it tiring and stressful to keep up the dominant male act necessary to ‘control’ her all the time and he wanted to know when he could start being himself – the answer was ‘never – unless you want your girlfriend to leave you’. How realistic is that for a long term relationship? Not only is it impossible to expect him to keep up an act all the time, it shows little understanding of female psychology – most women would love to think their boyfriend trusted them enough to show a more vulnerable side!

    But the macho terminology is definitely a turn off – any woman who says to a friend – ‘you know what, I think I was played’ – is not expressing pleasure and delight! The whole concept of a ‘player’ has deceit at its heart, something women always hate. Actually I just noticed that Lance calls himself an aspiring pimp, so I guess he doesn’t care too much about the meaning of words anyway. ( By the way, does Honey see herself as an aspiring prostitute?? Probably not!) Maybe I care a little too much about words, but by using expressions like player and pimp, you are blurring the distinction between ‘men who have confidence’ and sociopaths. And every brand manager knows how important it is to keep your identity distinct from other low-quality products!

    Anyway, confidence – good; practice – necessary; deceit – very, very bad. And obviously the same applies to women building their confidence too – I agree with Honey that a lot of the issues are the same for both sexes.

    Side note: I wonder if one reason the player phenomenon has come about is because American men don’t have the flirting skills of other cultures eg both European and Caribbean men tend to approach women with a lot of charm and don’t get pissy about a (polite) refusal. But American culture doesn’t seem to allow for this more relaxed interaction between the sexes and everything gets so high pressured and competitive, with a strong fear of loss of face …. just a thought.

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    Some great points here. I’ll be the first to admit, the language of pickup is pretty adolescent…it’s very much like if a bunch of nerdy, D&D playing geeks suddenly figured out how to get chicks and developed the language. When, in fact, that is exactly what happened! The good news is, I’ve noticed that the language is slowly evolving, as the older pickup artists are maturing and new guys with differing perspectives get into it. A lot of the new guard PUA’s have done away with the attraction scale (1-10) and the practice of posting field reports. Part of the problem here is that the entry point for almost all pickup guys is the bestselling book, The Game, that uses all that stuff. I remember Honey had the same reaction you did when I started telling her about my newfound hobby.

    On confidence, yes, the systems and techniques are partially designed to help you approach women. Once you get enough approaches under your belt, you become completely outcome independent (“Rejection. Who cares?”) and achieve a high level of inner confidence. You essentially build yourself into becoming that cool guy who is naturally good with women. This is called faking it till you make it, and I’m a BIG believer. I also believe that it’s impossible for a guy who has no experience socializing with women to succeed without some kind of structure and direction. Where do you learn these skills? Your mom? TV? It has to come with foundational experience. And that’s where using game comes in.

    On the dominant male thing. I’m pretty sure all PUA’s have this conflict, ie when do I stop the act? Yes, you want to be alpha, but you want that part of you to emerge naturally. Basically, men just need to get comfortable with their masculinity. Once that happens, it’s part and parcel of who they are, and it’s no longer an act…it’s just who they are. Just give yourself permission to act like a guy. Displaying vulnerability and quirkiness is perfectly fine too, because that’s just human.

    Thanks, hope you keep reading. Also, you should get in on our contest!!!

  • http://williamgcash.blogspot.com William Peregoy

    I don’t think of myself as a player, yet, a lot of my friends, both male and female do. Girls I have dated, usually think I’m a player, but, they always seem to like that…

    I’ve noticed that the more of a “player” reputation you tend to have, the more girls tend to notice you.

    Honestly, I consider myself shy. But, most of my friends or girls I have dated, etc always laugh when I say I’m shy… “You? shy?” Like it’s a joke.

    But, really, I am shy. I could easily go out and not talk to anybody. Not meet anybody. It’s not hard to do. You just don’t talk. Yet, if I get up the courage to go talk to one girl, that conversation builds confidence – because it’s easy to make a girl smile – I mean, they like the fact that you’re talking to them and you’re paying attention to them. You do see positive results just being yourself. Then, that parlays to the next person you meet – you’re not so scarred to go up and talk to them… and again, and the ball keeps rolling.

    Basically, I’ve had nights where I’ve gone out and just stood around with my friends and not talked to anybody new. And I’ve had times when I’ve talked to a bunch of new people (and usually I’ll get a couple of numbers). There’s never an in-between, because once you break the ice with that first person – approaching anybody else is so much easier. So, it’s either none or a few – never one or two. But, momementum is on your side – it’s like instant self-confidence.

    I have fun meeting people. I have fun.. flirting, I guess you can call it. But, I’m not the type of guy that will do anything to sleep with a girl. It’s not about “bagging the most chicks” – that’s wack. I’ve known dudes like that, that all they care about is whether or not they have sex tonight. That’s not me, and that’s not cool to me. That’s not what being a player is all about. It’s about having fun and being yourself. Being self-confident and social adept, like you said gives you “more options”. So, in that sense, I guess I can call myself a player, but it’s a good thing – I don’t mistreat women or do them wrong. I enjoy having a girlfriend, but I also know I enjoy being single as well – so I’m not trapped in either situation, I have “options”.

    William Peregoy’s last blog post..Week #2 Wrap-Up

  • http://www.howtotalkwithconfidence.com/blog chiz

    Good post. You make some great points that most people do not fully understand.

    “You know what the problem is here? Players will not say, “I love you,” because they know the difference between love and lust. That’s what you get with experience. A chode doesn’t know the difference (because they’re socially incompetent), and will drop the L-bomb with any chick he gets lucky enough to have sex with. Big reason why there are so many shitty relationships…incompetent men (and women) who think they’re in love when really they’re too ignorant and lazy to realize they’re a poor match and not really attracted to each other. If a player says love, he means it, because he knows what he’s doing.”

    I like how you explained that. Very helpful. Thanks.

    chiz’s last blog post..what to do when trapped in an argument

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  • Gina

    I agree, with your definition of player I definitely would like a man who is able to be a leader, hands down! I have the funniest story and it would only happen to me — just remembering now and laughing! I met a guy probably about four years ago. (in my mid twenties now) We met off a dating site and from the first date he had no game, telling me “he doesn’t want to play games”… just was “too nice”… “too eager”… but in general okay and figured I’d give him a chance, so I dated him a few more times. The guy was not even confident enough to get hard to perform sexually; and was like a puppy dog after crying on my shoulder because he couldn’t get it up… I was to say the least extremely turned off!

    Turns out, months later he is on this reality television show for Men who have no game; where they set him off into a bar to meet woman and he was such a wuzz – I suppose they were trying to teach him! I don’t remember the name of the show, but he was getting turned down left and right at the bar — so, yeah I’ll take a player over a nice guy any day of the week.

  • Cadenza

    Player means “someone not serious and unable to commit to a serious relationship”, not “socially gifted and charismatic”. Sorry to break it to you. Not all nice guys are socially retarded. When I call someone a player, it IS a pejorative term, because players are just users, period. They don’t give a crap about women and just use them sexually and financially, if possible.

    That said, a lot of people, and I’ve made this mistake before, would end up with awkward guys that they are not attracted to simply because they are safer. Because it can be difficult to differentiate between a player and a catch.

    A charismatic guy who knows how to treat women (and they are respectful of women, unlike players, who either ladle on the compliments or attack the girl’s self-esteem to make her insecure enough to want to sleep with him [which never worked with me]), who is socially competent, and yes, treats his mama well, is a catch, not a player. A player is someone who WILL cheat on you. A catch is someone who is attractive enough to have the opportunity, but who has the maturity, morals and good sense not to.

  • juancarlos

    Lance, you’re a fraud. You don’t know sh@t about women and the “game”. That’s judging by the way you speak. Sounds to me like you spend more time blogging than dating. Am I wrong? Hell no. You and other “seduction gurus” (who always fail to prove they’re REALLY good with women) need to stop making nice guys feel like shit about themselves. They don’t need your fu@cking advice. It’s horse manure, plain & simple. Guys just need to accept who god made them out to be, and leave it at that. And if they want something, they need to go for it and learn from THEIR mistakes, not yours. It’s that simple. No need for your bullshit. Go find another way to make money.

  • Titanium Raven

    Encouraging people to be confident, to develop better social skills, and take more control of their social lives is commendable, but this article fails to make a case why a woman should want a player for a boyfriend. For a good time with no strings attached, the player is a perfect choice, but “player boyfriend” is an oxymoron.

    Like it or not, “player” has pejorative meaning in today’s society. A player is someone, male or female, who only sticks around while things are fun or profitable, resists any serious attachments, and moves on when done. “Player” has become one-word shorthand for “person who uses and disposes of people like Kleenex”, because that is what players do, regardless of good intentions, not being disingenuous, etc. (There’s the argument that playing the game itself is disingenuous, but that’s a separate topic.) Actions always count for more than words when you deal with other people in any capacity, and sooner or later, players demonstrate that they are not reliable when it comes to relationships – this usually includes their friendships, too.

    “Boyfriend” and “girlfriend” are titles that come with some sort of relationship — not what players are about. It’s foolish to expect a player to still be with you next week, next month, or even tomorrow. And you’re crazy if you think they’ll still be around next year! The thing is, most women looking for a boyfriend are looking for someone who’s willing to stick around and see where the relationship will go.

    Committed relationships are what boyfriends are for, not players, and a man can’t be both at the same time. Same applies to women. Just try to convince a man he needs a “player girlfriend”! At the end of the day, the player is always far more committed to their lifestyle as a player and not any one person.

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