Lance: How to Get Phone Numbers, Prevent Flakes, Get Dates

I got into a discussion about game recently with Holly Hoffman (cough cough *hottie*), author of Worklovelife.com, and it got me to thinking about getting numbers and converting them to dates. I consider myself an intermediate social artist, but what I am good at is getting phone numbers. I can talk to virtually any girl I meet, make a connection, and within 5-10′ I can number or email close. That doesn’t make me a badass pickup artist or anything…getting numbers is an step towards advanced game, but it’s one area that I’m adept at. So what I’d like to do is offer my perspective on getting numbers and setting up dates, and Honey is going to offer her version. For purposes of this post, when I say number close, I also mean email, Myspace, Facebook, or any other type of contact info.

Number closing is actually quite easy. After approaching and opening a stranger, you can get a number with only a minimal amount of attraction. What’s hard is turning that number into an actual date or future meetup. When you get a number from a chick, call, and she never responds or answers, that’s a flake. Flakes happen to everyone and I went through a run of almost six months where every connection I made flaked. I couldn’t figure out what was going on because I was opening like a champion and generating attraction, but when it came time for the actual date, she just disappeared. It was mega frustrating and I really beat myself up over it. I started reading up on preventing flakes and running solid game in general until I finally figured it out.

Okay, when doing a cold approach for the purpose of trying to obtain a number, I see two different methods.

Investing Time And Making A Solid Connection

1. The first method is the long way. You meet a woman out in the field, you game her up for multiple minutes, build a solid connection, and at the end ask for her number. This may or may not result in a future meetup, but if you’ve wowed her with your glowing personality, then you’ve got a great shot. BTW, the process of online dating is similar, where you exchange several emails, then chat online, then talk on the phone, and then finally settle on a face-to-face date. Basically, you’re investing a bunch of time into the interaction until she gets comfortable and trusts that you’re not a psycho, while at the same time attracting her and getting her interested in your life. There are plenty of pickup products out there that break down this process and give far better advice than I can give, but I can recommend products by Love Systems. Also, I love the advice that David Wygant gives out and you can see his stuff here, for both men and women.

During any conversation with a stranger, there’s a hook point where I know if I ask for the number, I’ll get it. This hook point is basically the ah-ha moment where she thinks, “wow, this guy is pretty cool,” and I can sense it and see it in her body language. Usually it only takes me a few minutes to get to the hook point, and I can do it with only one connection. What do I mean by connection? Basically, any piece of value that you give her, such as making her laugh, a great story, a cool compliment, or some commonality that we’ve shared. As an example, I like talking about relationships and telling stories about my online dating exploits. If I can lead the conversation to this subject, I’ll share one of my tried and true funny stories, at which point, if I’ve read the situation correctly, she will share one back. Now we’ve established a connection. She thinks I’m cool, and I’m fairly certain that at the end of the interaction I can get the digits.

The thing is, the more connections you make, the greater the chance that you’ll get the digits, and more importantly, the greater the chance that you’ll get a date! I would say try to establish five or more connections to cement a future meetup. The more the better. Sometimes when I meet a new girl and we spend an hour or more together, I’ll establish 30 or more connections.

If you can combine this with flirting, displays of high value, kino (light touches), good body language, and a sexual frame, you’re gold. Obviously, that’s a lot of stuff, but that’s why I’m saying you have to wow her with your personality.

A couple of things to keep in mind about why someone would flake on you:

  • Girls are getting hit on constantly in bars and clubs. She might give her number out several times over the course of a night…how is she going to remember you? The answer is you have to wow her and eclipse the other guys with your awesome game.
  • Most hot women have boyfriends or fuck buddies, so they don’t NEED to date for the purposes of getting sex. Imagine the perfect 10 model hottie at the busiest club in the city. Does she need sex? Is she desperate? Fuck no. She’s getting nailed by a co-worker, a FB, and another player on the side. She doesn’t need a date with you. So even if you manage to score a phone number, what’s going to compel her to go on a date with a random guy? Nothing, unless you’ve truly blown her away with your game.

So what I’m saying here is invest your time and energy into CONNECTING with a person and wowing them with your personality and not so much on getting the number. If you’re trying to pick up a chick and you really blow her away, she’ll actually close herself, that is she’ll ask you to take her number. That’s the point I try to get to these days.

The Five Minute Pickup

1. Instead of spending hours connecting with someone, it’s totally viable to number close off an airtight five minute interaction. This converts reasonablly well during the day, for example at the mall, or if you live in a big city by simply walking down the street. The key is to make a stunner first impression and light her up…and then leave quickly! I recommend dressing well (although appropriate for the locale) and being in the right mental state. If you dress down and hate life, forget about it. You’ll come across as creepy and the number will be worthless.

When using this method, try for 2-3 quick connections, such as a unique compliment and a quick story that contains a display of high value.

Why does the five minute pickup work? Because you’re coming across as mysterious and fantastical. Every woman has the fantasy of a destined meeting with Mr. Right outside the bar. They want Mr. Right to fall out of the sky. Give her that fantasy. Walk up to a woman in the middle of day and tell her how cute she looks and that you just had to meet her (ie the direct approach). If you make the right first impression, get the number, and leave after 5′, she’ll be lit up and fill in the blanks about who you are. You are now Mr. Handsome & Mysterious, and the date will be on. After you close, run some text game and then call later to set it up.

This doesn’t always convert, but the cool thing is you’re only investing 5′. Run five of these per day for an entire week and all of sudden you’ve got yourself more dates than you can handle. Getting tons of dates is something I first learned about from reading Double Your Dating, and I highly recommend his ebook for anyone who has trouble getting dates. By the way, I’m not an affiliate of any of these companies, so I’m not making any money by recommending them.

Did you see the recent Dr. Phil episode with Paul Janka on it? He’s a master of the quick street pickup. Check out this video.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=dmYT6qlyIws[/youtube]

What Were the Keys For Me?

The first key was that I attempted to put myself in her shoes and guess at how she viewed me. Was I coming across sexy enough? Was I interesting enough? Did I come across nervous? This totally screwed up my results at first because I wasn’t enjoying the moment and “being myself.” The girls would sense this and I would get a ton of flakes. It did give me valuable perspective, because I realized the impression I was making and what women saw themselves doing with me. Once I internalized what was working (and not working), I dropped the real time analysis and just flowed with the interaction, and my results got a lot better. I still sometimes analyze too much during an interaction, which I think is a bit of a Gemini trait.

After every attempted pickup or social interaction, I recommend analyzing and keeping a journal. That’s right, if you’re serious about getting better with the opposite sex, open up a Word doc and break down every social interaction you have henceforth. These are called field reports in PU parlance. Journaling will go a long ways towards improving your skills and every serious social artist does this.

The second key, and this was the most important for me, was I realized that not every available woman wants a date. Some just want to screw. Let me say that again, but in bold. Some woman just want to screw and skip the dating. Some just want to makeout. Some want boyfriends. Some just want to talk. Some just want to be validated. Some want to party first and screw later. Some want to screw first and date later. Some want a combination of these things. You can influence her with your game and change what she initially wants, but it’s a lot harder. What I started doing is reading her and figuring out what she’s amenable to. Then it was simply a matter of having the right moves and executing.

What’s ironic here is I realized that way more women want to hook up now and not date than I thought possible. Crazy, huh? Well guess what…woman are just like men when it comes to sex. They like it and they want it. Some women are busy professionals and don’t have the time for an LTR. Some are single mothers and don’t want boyfriends. But they do want sex. As a guy, you’ve got to embrace this, relish it, and give it to her. It’s your job as a masculine creature.

In this situation, number closing is useless if your intentions are to wine and dine. I made that mistake plenty of times and now I chuckle about it. If I had just been bolder, I could have gotten laid more.

Here are a couple of good resources on getting numbers and flake prevention:

  • Try this article at the Seduction Chronicles, entitled If A Girl Tries To Flake Out On The First Date.
  • Vin Di Carlo has a short ebook about flaking called No Flakes, which is like the final word on the subject. You can download it for free, but you’ll have to punch in three emails.

This is part 1 in a two part series. In part 2, I’ll present some of my own interactions, break them down, and tell why they worked or flaked. Honey is going to blog on the woman’s perspective on giving out numbers and flaking.

  • http://www.miamilf.blogspot.com Exception

    It is intriguing to think that you can size a woman up so quickly to “shock and ah” her with your charm! ;)

    I agree that women want different things. We are not all looking for the marriage and commitment that men usually assume.

    But I have to admit that your strategy would not work with me unless there is confidence behind all that charm. Women can see real confidence – and that is what is sexy.

    Exception’s last blog post..Open Forum – From the Mailbag

  • Jonsi

    There is a lot of truth to this. And even me, as a guy, have sometimes backed away from women who were interested, who were perfectly hot and cool to hang out with, when things in my life put me in a place where I didn’t really want to date. Not every woman who finds you attractive and interesting will want to date you, even with great game. It’s logistics.

    That’s why the best PUA’s calibrate their game to the logistics. I know some good ones who make their living teaching game. No, they cannot pull any girl they want. But what they can do is have genuine, fun interactions with any woman, and what they do well is they determine what the woman is amenable to.

    Getting numbers is easy. Why? Because if you aren’t creepy, if you are somewhat interesting and have a positive interaction, the woman will probably give it to you half because she did enjoy you, and half because she doesn’t want to make it awkward and turn you down. The key is to improve your game so that the ratio is 75/25.

    This is why I feel online dating is great while you are figuring this out, but only as a supplement to meeting women elsewhere.

  • http://www.worklovelife.com Holly Hoffman

    Thanks for the shout out. ;)

    Coming from the female end of things, I *rarely* give out my number. I was just taught not to do that. I tend to opt for the “why don’t you give me yours?” line instead. Then, it’s my choice and I can decide whether or not I want to talk to him again.

    I don’t know why more guys don’t give their numbers. It’s kind of hot – it means you’re confident enough to let the ball be in her court. It also makes me more comfortable with you – I know you’re not a sleazeball with a GF who has to get my number b/c you’re afraid of getting calls from another girl, and I know you’re not going to stalk me or something crazy like that.

    As long as there’s something memorable about you (you made me laugh, were witty, etc.), then I’ll probably at least text you. I might not be willing to give you my number, but I’ll take yours.

    Holly Hoffmans last blog post..A Simple Productivity Method That Yields Results

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    Holly, you’re the exception in this instance, not the rule. It’s my experience that when you give a girl your number, she never (or rarely) contacts you back. Maybe it’s because she’s being chased already she doesn’t need to pursue. HOWEVER, if the guy’s game is really tight and you EXCHANGE numbers, she will often text first. I’ve had this happen many times and I really try to strengthen my connections to the point where the girls want to contact me.

    On another note, I calibrate to the individual and try to suss out what she is more likely to respond to, ie phone calls, texts, myspace exchanges, etc etc. A lot of chicks won’t accept phone calls, but they’re happy to text with you or make myspace friends, so if you can figure that out then you can switch your game to myspace game once you get home. Same thing with texting, a lot of girls won’t take the call but they’ll play the flirty text game with you.

    BTW, can I give you my number?

  • http://www.vcarded.com The Virgin

    Ugh….Paul Janka did Dr. Phil? (On an man-hating episode entitled “Male Egos Out of Control” no less?) I think I just lost a little respect for Janka, even Style (Mr. Dayshow Marketing himself) turned down Dr. Phil. Oh, anyway…

    “and you really blow her away, she’ll actually close herself,”

    Indeed, my good man. “When they like you, they help you.” Ultimately actions speak louder than words. Unfortunately, took me many years to learn that.

    The Virgins last blog post..The plight of the beautiful woman

  • Marta

    I think the closing on a number game can be age dependent. I am 31. I give guys my number if I am interested in them. (Meaning: They’re hot, witty, and charming.) What I’ve noticed about dating as a 30-something is most people want to exchange numbers. I think guys have a few more years experience on being flaked on, so they call you out…”Don’t you want my number too?” or they’ll put your number in their cell phone and call you while you’re standing in front of him. This lets them know that A) you did’t give them a fake number and B) you now have their number in your cell.

    Hottie Holly Hoffman is my little sister, and yes…we were taught to not give out our numbers. When I was 26, I didn’t give out my number. I, too, would ask for the guy’s number if they asked for mine. I usually didn’t call.

  • http://www.worklovelife.com Holly Hoffman

    I actually talked with two of my guy friends about this just this morning, and they said the same thing you did – that girls very rarely will call. But, I like what Marta (what’s up, big sis?!) says below about calling from right there to “lock it into your phone.” And I guess I am the exception, in more ways than one. LOL.

    Holly Hoffmans last blog post..A Simple Productivity Method That Yields Results

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    I noticed the same thing, comfort levels for giving out numbers is related to age. That’s also a cool little trick for making sure the number isn’t a fake, ie calling her from right there or punching it into her phone…I’ve done that one a bunch.

    On another note, I want to re-emphasize that the deeper you connect with the other person and the more you blow him/her away with your personality, the easier it is to get the number. I mean, if you’re single, you WANT to give those things out right, if the other person isn’t a douche??

    Ironic, because I’m the player who’s telling people to wow them with your personality and not worry so much about getting digits. It’s almost like conventional wisdom ;)

  • Me Thinks

    You hit it on the head. I think 20-year olds are overwhelmed and by the time you are in your 30s you are smart and selective enough to share it with someone you connect with. Really there is a missing piece here which is – the person giving the number. Are they mature enough to make these decisions and tell someone to take a hike if they aren’t interested?

    And yes, the game of calling their number as you give it to them “to store it” is a huge, sort of lame, GAME – I’ll agree if the guy is connecting with me.

  • http://www.hotalphafemale.blogspot.com Hot Alpha Female

    U know as i listen to more tapes, read more books and gain more dating experience. I realise that if you were a guy .. then picking up a chick is very much like being a salesman.

    But instead of selling a product … in a way you are the product that you are selling.

    There are so many similarities between the two and i think guys would have a lot better chance at veiwing chicks to pick up as a numbers game.

    In which a certain number of chicks will be interested depending on your approach and then you can refine your strategy to get more numbers in. lol

    HAF

    Hot Alpha Females last blog post..What You Don’t Know That You Don’t Know

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    I agree with that 100%…you’re basically selling yourself on the dating market. Many of the principles crossover too, such as illiciting values, bait hook reel release, closing, etc etc. IMO pickup could be more mainstream if it was marketed as “personal marketing” or something along those lines…but who really wants PU to be mainstream?? I don’t.

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