About the Author

Honey's main interests are online dating, long distance dating, and long term relationships. She met her boyfriend on MySpace and they have been exclusive since their first date over three years ago. Currently they live in Tempe, Arizona. Honey graduated with her PhD in Composition and Rhetoric in May 2009. You can contact Honey via email here or online here.

Honey and Lance – The Breakup

No, not me leaving the blog – the breakup when we were dating! :-)  Since I soon won’t be posting anymore, I thought that I’d tell you all the story from my perspective (I’d be pretty interested to hear Lance’s as well).

Lance told the story of the original pickup here, and for the most part it’s pretty accurate.  The only mitigating factors worth mentioning:

  • I was bored stiff on the date I was on.  He was a guy in my yoga class that I’d been friendly with for over a year, and I always thought he was pretty boring.  Turns out I was right.
  • I don’t remember what Lance said when he walked up either, but I do remember that both my date and I were low on drinks and Lance bought me another beer and, like he said, didn’t say anything to my date at all.  I thought it was pretty studly ;-)
  • When he contacted me in the next day or so, he said that he thought my date was totally lame and that I could do better.  I agreed, and he asked me out.  Nice!

Our first date was a bit of a clusterfuck because one of my cats died that day very suddenly (of a heart condition that wouldn’t have been fixable even if I’d known about it) – when Lance called early in the day to confirm the date, I was still pretty upset.  He asked me if I still wanted to go, and I was like, are you kidding?  I’m going to get shit-faced! Remember that due to being in the same grad program (and also having had the same part-time job at one point, I still have the employee manual from that job and it was his, it’s got his name on it) I had known him for at least 3 years prior to our first date.  We also (obviously) had some of the same friends, so I felt pretty safe with him.

I do remember that we went to one of our favorite bars, Fiddler’s Green, and that I on Lance’s recommendation I had Blue Moon with oranges in it for the first time, and thought it was delicious!  I was 23 at the time, and so we didn’t have sex on the first date because I was still in an idealistic phase with guys that I actually thought were relationship-worthy.  In fact, I think it was a couple of months before we had sex, though we fooled around before that and I spent the night at his place sometimes.  However, we didn’t date for over a year – it was only about seven months.  Our first date was December 29, 2002 – a fact which I remember because it is both of my parents’ birthdays, and also, as I said, it is the day that my cat died.  However, we were broken up before the fourth of July of 2003.

Why would we break up?  We never fought about anything that I remember.  In retrospect, however, that’s because I can’t remember either of us ever talking about anything of substance with each other.   This worried me a little bit initially, but after we had been dating about three and a half months I found out that I’d gotten into a PhD program in Arizona and would be moving across the country.  I was really digging Lance and considered asking him to come with me, but that seemed a bit ridiculous considering how short a time we’d been dating, plus at that time he was really into coaching his sport and for a variety of reasons there would have been absolutely no opportunities in that regard where I was going to be living.

We did chat a little bit about my upcoming move – Lance bought me an Arizona tourist guidebook to read on the plane when I went to visit the campus prior to accepting their assistantship offer – and he pretty much said that since we obviously enjoyed each other’s company, there was no reason we couldn’t continue to enjoy that company up until I left in late July/early August.  I agreed, and everything was fine for awhile.  Then, in late June, he stopped returning my phone calls.

After a week or two of this I finally managed to get ahold of him over the phone – I don’t remember what he said, but I remember it was totally lame and transparent.  I wanted to be flattered that he obviously cared more about me than he’d initially admitted (since that was the only reason I could imagine that he’d freak out at the last minute), but the fact was that I was deeply disappointed by how it all went down.

I know this was right before the fourth of July because I went out with a guy that had had a crush on me for some time on July 3 and we ended up having sex, and then on the Fourth I went over to a guy friend’s house for a BBQ, intending to sleep with him as well (he was an ex of mine) and since he was dating someone at that time, ended up having sex with his roommate.  They are among the lamer of my hookups in memory because they were totally motivated by being angry at Lance, not finding the other guys sexy or even interesting.

Despite the fact that I never saw him in person again, the crush guy story actually goes on a bit and is really hysterical in retrospect, but that’s another post ;-)

Anyway, Lance and I didn’t really talk again before I left, though when I came home for Christmas we did go on something I was hoping would be a date but that turned out not to be.  Eventually we started chatting again over email pretty extensively, and one of my biggest regrets is the time that he was going to be in California for something (a wedding?  Help me out, Lance, I don’t remember, it was around April 2005) and he said that if I could get myself out there, that he’d put me up (read: have hot sex with me in a swanky hotel all weekend) and pay all the other expenses while I was there.  I was dating someone at the time and said no.  The reason I regret this so much is that I broke up with the guy I was dating within two months of Lance’s offer (and it was a breakup that  that I saw coming at the time Lance and I were talking).  Lame on me :-(

In September 2005, after we’d been chatting a bit over email for several months, he sent me an email where he recounted a recent breakup and its aftermath, and he ended the email by saying this:

I want to tell you that I am massively sorry about how we ended, as in you and I.  I was a coward, and I recognize that.  I am shocked that you’ll still talk to me but I am glad that we communicate also because I value you.  You’re a good person and a terrific girlfriend and a great lover.  I fucked that up.  I hope that you can forgive me.

Anyway, our emailing was stepped up quite a bit that fall and in the early spring of 2006 because a mutual friend of ours was moving to Arizona in August 2006, also to pursue the same PhD I was getting.  I remember that Lance was supposed to come out to Arizona and help him move/unpack/do general male bonding and roadtripping, but that didn’t end up happening because another friend of ours was in a very serious accident and Lance stayed in Florida to help that friend out.  I was torn about his visit out because I’d always carried a torch for Lance, but I’d met Jake in May 2006 and while it wasn’t yet in a place where it could be characterized as serious, I knew on our first date that I liked him more than anyone I’d ever been out with before, and we were already exclusive, if not bf/gf.  Well, Lance ended up canceling his trip so there was never any competition for Jake at all.

While I still obviously care for Lance a great deal, given everything at this point, I can’t help but be happy that I’ve ended up where I did.  Is this how you remember it, Lance?

e's been coming to Orlando (he goes to UF) for a long time and trying to

hook up with her. This includes while M and I were still going out (say,

starting a year ago). An example: he sent her a dozen red roses for

Valentine's Day and it fucked up my own valentine's plans; I still ended up

spending like $200 on her but we had a big fight that night. Well, basically

he's been a worm and trying to worm his way into M for a long time. I

realized this from the moment I met him and I was always a nice guy about

it. Like, I was friendly, chatted him up, bought him drinks, shit like that.

I figured nothing would ever happen. I figured she wouldn't fall for it.

Well, it turns out that the reasons M and I broke up were bullshit. She left

me because of this dude Matt, not because of the stated reasons. It was

really fucked up. I spent a month in hell, having soul scorching guilt

because of our break up. I blamed myself for what happened. It was all

bullshit. It was this dude Matt, who's a fucking pencil-dicked worm. I got

played. If I had known they were dating or that she wanted to be with him, I

would have gotten over her a hell of a lot sooner. I shouldn't have been

such a nice guy and I should have told this guy Matt to fuck off a long time

ago and to never hang out with my woman. I should have told him that if he

ever showed up in Orlando to see M I would have destroyed him. Perhaps then

this would have never happened. Nice guys always get fucked.

I want to tell you that I am massively sorry about how we ended, as in you

and I. I was a coward, and I recognize that. I am shocked that you'll still

talk to me but I am glad that we communicate also because I value you.

You're a good person and a terrific girlfriend and a great lover. I fucked

that up. I hope that you can forgive me.

-Ben

  • http://demetershouse.wordpress.com Demeter

    I’m curious (admittedly because of the ex issues Nico and I are working through)–how does Jake feel about you blogging with your ex? Especially since your blog reveals a lot of intimate details about your relationship with Jake–he doesn’t freak out that your ex is privy to all that?

  • http://honeyandlance.com Honey

    Hey, Demi!

    It was very weird in the beginning, I’ll admit. I didn’t start off super explicit and also I ran a lot more things by Jake in the beginning so he could yea or nea them. But it turns out that he doesn’t really read the blog often and never said no to anything I wanted to post, so gradually I stopped asking him and posted whatever I wanted.

    But as far as the concept of blogging with an ex…yes, Jake was opposed to the idea of the blog at first. But that was after we had been together about a year and a half, and he didn’t have enough say in our relationship yet to say no (he did later veto a time when I wanted to meet up with one of my other exes, but that’s because the guy was an abusive jerk – there is another ex that we are both friendly with). And since prior to the blog Lance and I were exchanging thrice-weekly, really lengthy emails that he wasn’t privvy to, I think Jake kind of liked the idea of all our exchanges being public.

    And of course at this point, Jake and I have been together for over four years, and in the case of Lance we are talking about a guy that I dated for about 7 months about 7 years ago, that I haven’t seen in person in over six and a half years. I think it’s hard to be threatened by someone if all the communication is totally public and you are over 2000 miles apart.

    Which doesn’t speak to your current situation at all, I’m afraid :-)
    .-= Honey´s last blog …Honey and Lance – The Breakup =-.

  • http://honeyandlance.com Lance

    I believe I was approx. 27 when we “broke up,” ie I stopped returning your phone calls right before you moved, and the only thing I can say is I was an immense dumbass back then and did douchey things that most 27-year-old males do, especially in complicated relationship situations. There’s not much more to it than that, definitely not another chick, I just had a bit of a freakout and a withdrawal. Most definitely I would handle that situation very differently now.

    I only really came into my own as a solid relationship person after I got into pickup, which I think was 3-4 years ago. You’re recollection of our interactions is pretty accurate, much more detailed than mine.

    What really gives a good glance into my inner life back then was when you said we didn’t have many conversations of substance. That was pretty much me at that age, a lot of fun but not communicative or even particularly curious about relationships. In my mind, a man’s curiosity level about human relationships is a good metric to see how mature and ready he is for a relationship. BTW, I strongly believe this is a major separator of men and women, chicks are curious about relationships waay earlier than guys.

    It is too bad you couldn’t do the San Diego trip for the wedding, it would have been a guaranteed show stopper of monkey sex! That was what I was aiming for all along.

  • http://honeyandlance.com Honey

    Yes, the wedding would’ve been awesome – and the sex with the guy that I was dating at that time was infrequent and very vanilla, even for someone like me who’s not super kinky (he was British, which supposedly explains it). Even back then, before you really started working consciously on your skills as a sex partner, you ECLIPSED this other fellow :-)
    .-= Honey´s last blog …I Nailed A Chick Other Than My Girlfriend =-.

  • http://katwilder.com/ Kat Wilder

    Breakups, no matter how well executed or not, are always challenging. Hard not to think, “But, what if …?”

    Still, I think if we’re happy where we are right now — and you and Jake are — then it was all for the good.

    Even without the monkey sex! ;-)
    .-= Kat Wilder´s last blog …Girl talk: It isn’t all about feelings =-.

  • http://demetershouse.wordpress.com Demeter

    The publicness makes a lot of sense, actually. But you’re right; it doesn’t speak much to my current situation, lol.

  • Nicole

    My god, Lance is old! 34?! From the stuff he writes in this blog (like, texting mediocre chicks and stringing them along, pick-up artist, shit like that), i thought he was in his mid-20s, some faded ex-frat boy fresh out of college and still partying away. wow. Honey, you way better off now, girl!

  • Jax

    34 is young. People mature at different rates and some have a different definition for what mature is. I would guess you are younger than Lance to believe he is old, I think 34 is young, now that I am almost 50 that also seems young.

    Lance is searching. He wants to be a good guy, he just hasn’t been told he can be a good guy and still be authentic too. Oh, cliche book title, how to become your authentic self.
    Just projecting here… who really feels good after lying? Lance now has the guilt compartmentalized so that he doesn’t self berate himself for lying and cheating. He is justifying the cheating by saying everything is still perfect with Heather(nothing has been perfect even before this) and she is none the wiser. There is always that off feeling when someone lies to you, she must feel it.

    Ignoring those little red flags, that’s what she is doing. Why? Is Lance such a catch or has she already been dumped often because she is so vanilla?
    Hmmm…. Can Heather be wise and actually know she may have to settle on a relationship with someone that settles for her?
    Do sexually vanilla people know they are sexually vanilla? Can a sexually vanilla person ever be hot in bed?
    Not settling for someone that isn’t sexually compatible doesn’t make you shallow, it means you are true to yourself and being true to others allows you to be even more true to yourself.

  • http://honeyandlance.com Lance

    Jax, I don’t have any guilt. At least I don’t think I do. I feel completely normal.

    You raised an interesting question, one that I’ve been asking a lot also: do sexually vanilla people know that they are sexually vanilla? I think no. Most people think they are pretty good in bed, and by their standard, they are. The overwhelming standard is regular meat and potatos sex, both partners orgasm once, and then you’re done. For me, that’s 5/10 sex, where *very* hot, heavy, kinky, athletic sex with multiple orgasms is 10/10. So if I get a partner that can’t enable that type of sex, for me it’s mediocre sex, while she might think it’s the cat’s meow. Which is exactly the situation I’m in.

  • Jax

    I won’t even date a man that is a one and done. That’s an predate question. Get the knowledge of sexual compatibility done before the first date. You can do this in a tactfully without being offensive. I had a man just a bit older than you ask me if I would give him head on the first date. Not likely going to happen being put like that. First meet/date should not have happened but curiosity of this brazen, sexual braggart got the better of me and I went to meet him. Which ended with my kissing him on the top of the head on my way of walking out on him. Anyhow, get back to you.
    Be honest upfront and you will have much better relationships and an easier life.

    You don’t have guilt, maybe, then my guess would be… you just really aren’t that into her and you don’t really care if you hurt her. She is just another of others. You don’t respect her, obviously,(hardest part of being cheated on, knowing the lack of respect…) because you slept with her after the wildsex mediocre girl and did not feel the need to tell her. When you respect someone, you give them choice, freewill. Surely, you understand that?

    Not judging you. Really, I like the interaction of different views.

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Honey

    I don’t think that you can claim that any one type of sex is “better” than another type…just as you have said in previous conversations that one man’s 6 (in looks) is another man’s 10, it is the same with sex. You can be less compatible or more compatible with different people, but you can’t say that someone’s bad in bed because they’re not kinky.

    I think most people who are vanilla know it – how can you not realize that there are people out there into golden showers, or anal, or threesomes, or bondage, or D/s, or autoerotic asphyxiation? Similarly, how can kinky people not know there are lots of folks out there who refuse to give or receive oral sex, or who will only have sex in the missionary position, or only for the purpose of procreation, or only after a shower? It’s completely obvious to everyone on earth that there is an almost infinite variety of sexual experience out there, and certain things are regarded as risque and certain things aren’t.

    One of the big problems I have with pickup is that a lot of the guys are into traditional gender roles and domination, and there is an assumption that all women are secretly “dirty girls” who want to be dominated and controlled. Not only is that not true of every girl, that’s not even how every guy feels about sex.

    So many people wander around feeling as if everyone else is secretly exactly like they are, but just won’t admit it for some unfathomable reason. Atheists assume that churchgoers really know that god’s a crock, and churchgoers assume that atheists are either mad at god, or scared of him. Liberals assume that deep down, conservatives know they’re bigots and misogynists, and conservatives assume that liberals are willing to pander to the socioeconomically unfortunate just to make a power grab. The vanilla assume that the kinky are just showing off, and the kinky assume that the vanilla want to deny themselves any fun.

    The truth is that we are all VERY different, and those who feel in ways that we don’t are just as sincere in their beliefs as we are in ours. You can change other people – a little, if they want to change. You can change yourself – a little more, if you’re motivated. But mostly, it’s a good idea to find someone you have most things in common with, because the odds of such fundamental differences being mutually satisfying over the long run are very, very slim.
    .-= Honey´s last blog …I Nailed A Chick Other Than My Girlfriend =-.

  • Nicole

    I agree with Jax’s analysis. I don’t mean to be harsh. I also don’t mean 34 as old, literally. I just think it’s “old” to be doing pick-up stuff at that age. I’ve been cheated and have cheated. I have rationalized it as the bf being not sexual enough, incompatible in bed, etc. But unlike you, Lance, although I never confessed to the bf, I broke up with him shortly after and I did feel a ton of guilt. I think Jax is right that maybe you just don’t respect her.

    I’ve heard that there are 2 types of cheaters, 1) those who cheat because they’re unhappy and then get out of the relationship, and 2) those that stay in the relationship but keep cheating.

    I guess I just think Lance is kinda immature, not for cheating, but more for his rationalization. Like, he wants to believe that you just can’t have it all (great sex and great companionship), the 500-mile rule, the lack of guilt, the justification that it’s ok to cheat because he doesn’t feel like the intimacy with Heather has been reduced. These all sound like things coming from someone who isn’t very aware of and honest with himself. Someone who isn’t very in touch with himself. Someone who hasn’t looked within himself to really know what he wants, someone who’s scared of intimacy, really.

    And not everyone can orgasm 10 times even if they tried. Also relize that it’s different to be fucking some mediocre chick who probably hasn’t been touched in ages (of course she’ll orgasm, a lot), vs a long term gf who senses that you two don’t really connect and hence don’t really feel like orgasming.

  • angie

    “I only really came into my own as a solid relationship person after I got into pickup, which I think was 3-4 years ago.”

    Oh, the irony of this comment.

    I have never heard/read a definition of “solid relationship” that included lying, cheating, disrespect… and to do all those things with no remorse or guilt? You don’t care a bit about Heather, despite what you say. And that comment above just shows out of touch and clueless you are. You will never have the intimacy you claim to want until you can be honest with women and respect your partners. Give them the choice to be with you as you truly are, not make them believe they are with someone who believes in monogamy.

  • http://honeyandlance.com Honey

    Yes, every time I have ever cheated (which hasn’t been a lot) I have broken up with the person I was “dating” within a week. Usually much less time than that. I recognize in retrospect that I wasn’t strong enough to break up with someone “just because” I was unhappy, so I used it as an excuse. I felt a lot better after I was able to prioritize myself, for a variety of reasons :-)

    I have been with both types of cheaters, and am sure I don’t even know every time I was cheated on. It made me insecure for a long time.
    .-= Honey´s last blog …I Nailed A Chick Other Than My Girlfriend =-.

  • http://honeyandlance.com Lance

    I too have been cheated on and have cheated before, although not that much, believe it or not. I’m at a point where if Heather “cheated” on me, it wouldn’t phase me that much. I would encourage her to go her path and fulfill her fantasies and I’d also like to perceive it as a growth potentiator. What I am thinking about engineering is a situation where we can both date other partners (I’m thinking 1-2), but we’re still each others primary partner. That will be super difficult to do, I admit, because her notions of relationships are 100% traditional. But, I figure that influencing her relationship values are at least as difficult as influencing her sexual values. If it blows up in my face, that’s fine too, it wasn’t meant to be.

  • Nicole

    I really don’t think you like Heather that much. Period. If you’re ok with her dating/sleeping with 1-2 other people. That sort of polyamory thing may be more doable if you’ve been in a LONG LONG term relationship, where you know each other very well, to the point that you can say that the other person is really your life partner / primary partner. Heather is practically a new gf, only 6 months? If you’re already bored w/ her sexually, your relationship is doomed. Being “compatible” in every way outside the bedroom is essentially saying you’d make great platonic friends.

    Like Honey, I’ve cheated because I wanted to get out of the relationship, but couldn’t bring myself to say it, so I just acted upon it, and then the breaking up part became clear.

  • http://honeyandlance.com Lance

    I like Heather a ton, more so than any other gf I’ve had, and I’ve had plenty. There’s no question in my mind that I’m in love with her. That’s why this conflict is so deep for me. As I’ve said, she’s a perfect companion and our relationship is outstanding. If the relationship were any less than what it is (10/10 in my mind), I would have ditched her after the first time we had sex, which was the third date. I didn’t cheat because I wanted out, I cheated simply because I wanted a really awesome bang session.

  • Jax

    Lance,
    You aren’t in a relationship at all, you are in a play of your own making. Heather is now just a puppet in the play.
    You can’t respect her and lie and cheat on her, tell her the truth, let her live her real life, not some made up fake life you are presently feeding her. She should have the right to go get std testing etc… Man up. ;)

    Jax

  • http://honeyandlance.com Honey

    Love is not just a noun – not just a name for a feeling you have. Love is a VERB – it is what you DO.

    You may have the noun, but you don’t have the verb.
    .-= Honey´s last blog …How Far Do We Go To Change Our Partners? =-.