Does International Nooky Count As Cheating?

(I miss you DR!)

As promised, I’m going to (belatedly) share the insights I gleaned from my trip to DR. This was the first major trip I’ve taken since I got into social artistry (two years) and also the only trip I’ve done with other social artists. We talked extensively about game and social psychology, while at the same time observing and interacting in-field. I thought this was an excellent experience and really added to my knowledge base. Here’s day 1, day 2, and day 3 of the trip.

Here we go.

What was the deal with the local chicas we partied with? At first I thought they might be hookers, but twas not the case. They were friends of our local contact, who was friends with Bobby and Mike. The girls were young, enjoyed partying, and for the most part they took advantage of a chance to hang with fun, interesting, and generous gringos. These girls have access to tourists every weekend, but they probably never had access to a place as nice as the Drug Lord Palace. Everyone likes a killer pad.

Money. We had money, and we didn’t mind throwing it around and picking up the tabs. They didn’t pay for anything on the two nights we partied together. Obviously, the ability to pay for things was part of the transaction.

Power. Gecko mentioned this and I’m still on the fence about it, but he suggested that the girls got off on hooking up with a bunch of free spending gringos. It’s like when a chick sleeps with a rock star, she gets to brag about it later to her friends. When the chicas walked into a club with us, their social status boosted because we’re perceived as quasi-celebrities.

It’s worth noting that several of the girls LOVED having dirty, filthy, NSA sex. They enjoyed this aspect of the interaction as much, if not more, than we did.

Is it “bad game” to pick up the tab when partying with girls in another country? A lot of pickup theory says never, EVER, pay for drinks for chicks because you’re devaluing yourself. In this case, it doesn’t apply. Us gringos had plenty of cash and the local girls were poor…that was the reality. Us picking up the tab maintained our value and, more importantly, maintained the spirit of the interaction (fun, party). We were on vacation so it’s expected that we pick up the incidentals.

Why were there so many hookers? Third world country, very few good jobs for women, they don’t have ways to make money. Basically, that’s what the marketplace for women is like in DR. I have no hard evidence to support this, but several of us speculated that MANY young women try prostitution in DR, some on a “casual” level, where casual means asking the guy for some money the next morning even though the transaction was never established the previous night. I think of it as a tip.

BTW, our girls never asked us for money.

What was up with Lola and the mediocre sex? Lola is actually a “good girl” and doesn’t have crazy, bad girl sex, at least with someone she just met. It’s possible she’s also quite religious, although I couldn’t tell because I couldn’t talk to her. A couple of the other girls were “bad girls” and did anything and everything.

Sex with Lola did get better on the second go-around, and I suspect it would have been really good the longer we hung out.

Why did Lola blow me off the second night? I wrangled with this one for awhile and I think there were two reasons. One, she was without her group of friends and wouldn’t consider going back to the Palace alone for safety reasons.

Two, she had a “date” with another Anglo on Friday night. Since we didn’t schedule anything with the girls for Friday, I was out of the picture. Maybe if I spoke Spanish I could have “picked her up” and pulled her back to the house.

Do Men and Women Barter Sex for Services, Money, Fun? Yes, moreso women than men. These chicks were bartering their company, feminine energy, and willingness to have sex for a weekend of partying and merrymaking. This happens all the time, in every country, with everyone. See this CNN.com article for more info (found via brazencareerist.com). Bartering sex for stuff is an ancient economy, probably the oldest economy there is.

Is it possible to have sex without love? Of course!

Is it possible to have sex with someone and be in love with someone else? Good question. I had a crazy weekend with my LDFB, a girl I’m extremely fond of, nay, even love, just the weekend prior. After hooking up with Lola, my feelings for Gina didn’t change at all. In fact, on the way home, I actually missed her more than before I left. If Gina had been waiting for me at home, I would have bonked her silly. So I think the answer, at least for me, is absolutely. Sex and love can be totally separate, and sometimes it should be.

If you hook up in another country, does it count as cheating? It’s not okay if you’re sneaking around on your partner, but at it’s core level, I think international nooky can be good way to get in some sexual variety. No strings attached, adventurous, little chance of accidentally falling in love. An international hookup is easier to compartmentalize. If I had been in an LTR and hooked up with Lola abroad, it wouldn’t have changed my feelings for my SO at all; in fact, I believe it would have refreshed my feelings. Just establish it early on and make sure there are no surprises if you’re going that route.

Would I let my SO hook up in another country if she asked nicely? Yes, I’d be okay with it. There would be ground rules, like don’t bring home the clap, don’t fall in love, don’t get pregnant, etc.

Take Vacations Without Your Partner and Do Same-Sex Bonding

This is what really hit me, but I think it’s super important to take vacations from your significant other and, as David DeAngelo says, give each other the gift of missing one another. If you’re married, travel for a couple of weeks without your SO, and allow yourself to grow as an individual.

For me, the chance to hang out with intelligent, highly motivated men was super invaluable. We shared knowledge and created a temporary mastermind group, which has had the effect of galvanizing me in my personal goals and projects. Do a guys- or girls-only vacation at least once a year and get your mojo in balance. That’s my best advice right now.

  • http://www.singlemomseeking.com/blog Single Mom Seeking

    My only question is: Why do you keep calling them “girls”… when clearly, they are women!

    You refer to yourself and your friends as “intelligent, highly motivated men.”

    You refer to them as “girls” who were “young, enjoyed partying, and for the most part they took advantage of a chance to hang with fun, interesting, and generous gringos.”

    Please, please reassure me that they were of legal age.

    Single Mom Seekings last blog post..Want to connect with other single parents on Facebook?

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    Definitely of US legal age, between 21 – 29, which is approximately the age range of our group. I always call woman chicks or girls when I’m out and about, old habit I guess.

  • http://www.idatewhite.com Eathan

    I call them girls.. depending on what I am doing with them.

    Anyway.. to my main thought.

    I’m considered to be a social artist.. pick up.. or pro dater and my approach is so different. I don’t pick up tabs. I very rarely pick up tabs to pick up women. I buy a couple drinks..but I’m not the type that stays focused on 1 women. I normally have several when I go out on the prowl. International nookie requires a unique approach. I have always used the “I want to learn the culture” approach. Chicks like to teach a guy stuff. It turns them on… I could talk for hours on this subject.. But I can’t give all my secrets away.. ‘for free’ haha..

    Bottom line is.. if you don’t mind spending a few bucks for your international nookie rep to have fun with you all night.. then keep spending it. You’re right.. they don’t have much money. Show them a good time.

  • http://honeyandlance.com Honey

    I have a HUGE problem with not calling them women. Shame on you. For me, “girls” is age 0-12, “young woman” or “young lady” age 12-18, and “woman” thereafter.

    If as a social artist you’re trying to add value to a woman’s life by interacting with her, then treating her with the respect she deserves (and promoting the idea that she is a woman and hopefully subtly encouraging her to demand that others refer to her as such) is an easy way to start.

    “Girls” is reserved to women talking about their friends, and “chicks” to girls who are “one of the guys,” but only if they refer to themselves that way first.

  • http://www.theseductionbible.com Bobby Rio

    I still call them girls… Just like when I go out with my buddies it “boys night out”

    The day I go out to the bar to “hit on women” is the day I’ve officially recognized the fact that I’m old.

    on a different note…

    I don’t mind paying for drinks in countries like the DR or Brazil… these girls don’t make shit… as alpha as it is in the states to not buy drinks… to make a girl pay down there displays the exact opposite…

    Don’t get me wrong.. i won’t get taken for a sucker and buy chicks drinks all night with no response.

    But if I’m vibing with a girl its completely natural to buy her a drink a few minutes into the convo… its also completely natural to kiss her a few minutes into the convo…

    so all is fair!!

  • http://www.singlemomseeking.com/blog Single Mom Seeking

    Honey, you say it so well! Maybe is why Lance and the guys needed to go to DR for some booty… They couldn’t get any “girls” over here in the States.

    Single Mom Seekings last blog post..Want to connect with other single parents on Facebook?

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    Disagreed! Totally! Using girls is the exact same as saying guys, as in “what are you guys up to?” It’s a casual, somewhat affectionate way for men to refer to women. There’s no element of disrespect in the label. You’ll notice that men and women refer to women they’re friends with well past middle age as girls.

    You would never go to a bar, approach a group of women, and say, “Hey, what are you women up to?” It doesn’t even sound right. On the flipside, it would be bizarre if anyone walked up to me in a casual social situation and asked, “Hey, what are you men up to?” Far too formal.

    There’s no value exchange there, it’s simply an informal title.

  • http://20-forty.com/ lisaq

    Interesting insights into the whole Lola thing Lance. I totally agree with the whole same sex bonding & vacation thing. It’s a great way to get bonding time in and it can be great for a relationship.

    lisaqs last blog post..Finding Love Through Detachment

  • http://honeyandlance.com Honey

    I think “ladies” is the equivalent of “guys.” You don’t say “what are you boys up to,” and as single mom speaking notes, you refer to yourselves as men throughout the post. There is a key, KEY value exchange going on.

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    Again, I have to disagree. I use “ladies” often in-field, although I think it’s the female equivalent of saying “gents” or “gentlemen.” It’s a bit more formal but totally natural if used in the right way. I also say, “What are you boys doing?” or “I’m hanging with the boys tonight” all the time! It’s less formal and fits well in casual social situations or with close friends.

    I can’t think of any social situation where I would use the term women while talking to women. “How are you women doing?” Also, what is the value issue? I’m not knocking (DLV) a woman down by referring to her as a girl, it’s just more casual.

  • http://www.vcarded.com The Virgin

    Actually, “boys” is used all the time, my friend’s wife used to say “Have fun boys” when we went out for a bite to eat or whatnot. Just a casual word and didn’t bother us none nor did we notice…worrying about something like that is a little too P.C. for my tastes.

  • http://honeyandlance.com Honey

    I agree completely that saying “I’m hanging with the girls tonight” or “it’s girls’ night out” is something I would use AS A WOMAN to refer to MY CLOSE WOMEN FRIENDS. I also agree that we don’t have a great casual way to refer to groups of women the way “guys” does for men. “Ladies” is the closest thing but you have to, as Lance says, keep a light tone so you don’t come across as awkwardly formal.

    However, I maintain that using “girls” to talk to women is a rhetorical move that robs them of their power by implying a dynamic where they are a child and you are an authority figure, and that especially in the context that you describe above in DR, it’s condescending and even bullying (if subtly so).

    In the Virgin’s comment, I’d argue that the friend’s wife was being a little condescending.

    I’m puzzled by your arguments, which seem to boil down to “the language I use to refer to women when I am trying to pick them up doesn’t matter.”

    But hey, I only have a PhD in rhetoric and wrote a dissertation that focuses specifically on comparing the language that politically active women used to talk about themselves to gain credibility in public forums with the language that men used to talk about women to rob them of credibility in public forums. What do I know?

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