I Made Out With A Leo And It Was A Pain In The Ass

My date with Kitty was killer. Here’s how it went down.

Firstly, I was well dressed. I wore a cool pair of jeans and a badass, dark green, long sleeve shirt I save for special occasions and first dates. The shirt is fitted, so it shows off my upper body well. This is a nice detail that has gotten me compliments in the past.

I had us meet at this classy bar that was across the street from my top spot, the Vietnamese Restaurant (VR). I arrived first. I pulled up to the bar and ordered a mint julep (nod to Kentucky Derby weekend). She texted and said she was looking for parking and would arrive 5′ late. No problem. An older, well dressed couple walked up and ordered drinks. I opened them, asking if they followed horse racing, and sure enough, they did. We proceeded to have a cool conversation about travel, the esoteric sport of polo, and horse racing in general…note, I know nothing about horse racing, so I basically asked questions.

I opened this set on purpose. I wanted Kitty to see me socializing, and sure enough, when she arrived, I was there making new friends. I hugged her, kissed her on the cheek, sat her down on a bar stool (I stood next to her) and introduced her to the couple. So, just like that, we’re a 4-set, talking about all kinds of cool stuff. This gave me a nice social value burst, plus it relieved all of the awkwardness of a first meet. Remember, I had never met Kitty face-to-face before this moment. The 4-set lasted exactly one drink and then the couple left. Kitty and I chatted at the bar for another 15′.

Note here: Kitty is a very cute…even more so than in her pictures. 5’6″, brunette, slender, dark brown eyes, very nice smile. She was wearing jeans and a black top. I guess the feature that stood out to me were her hands…she had very agile, dextrous looking hands, and I complimented her on them much later in the night. Turns out she plays the piano and violin. Points for me.

This is where it gets weird. I was getting shitty body language from her–knees away and closed, she was leaning away, eyes darting. She was cracking her knuckles and fiddling with stuff, like her straw and her purse strap. This threw me for a loop and I couldn’t figure out what was going on. Was she nervous? Did she think I was a douchebag? Did she hate my green shirt?

I asked solid, open-ended questions (eg “If you won the lottery, what would you do?”) and told my proven stories, and still the same BL. No attraction spikes at all. We just didn’t seem to be connecting. So now I was getting a bit worried. I suggested a bounce to the VR for food and she was up for it. We walked across the street.

We went into the VR. My plan was to sit us at the bar so we could be close (ie not have a table between us), but that was impossible. The place was packed. We got a table. I immediately launched into my food oversell routine (credit JLAIX), which got a bit of a laugh, but still no spikes. She was just as fidgety and there was some dead conversational air. It got so bad, we started talking about music, but in that uncool way like you’re out of stuff to talk about. I really needed her to ask me some good questions and jump into the interaction, but it wasn’t happening. Fuck. I resisted doing anything stupid and decided to wait this stretch out.

We ordered. Food arrived. Great as usual. She went to the bathroom, and when she came back, I asked if her friends were checking up on her, suggesting that she was in the bathroom texting her friends. This got a smile, because sure enough she had received two texts asking about the date. Here’s the turning point of the evening:

Lance: “So, what did you text them in reply?”

Kitty: “I told them it was going alright.” (neutral BL, no smile)

Lance: “Fair enough.”

Kitty: “What do you think?”

Lance: “I think you’re really cute.” (sharp response, laserbeam eye contact)

Kitty: “Oh…uh…thank you!” She stuttered and was knocked off balance. I sensed a strong emotional spike. At this point, I decided to hammer her with routines and all the material I had. She was a tough nut, but I figured if I plowed she would come around. Natural Tim talks about tracking her emotional heart rate…if it’s flat, you’re fucked, but if you can generate a lot of spikes, you’re in. This was my first spike in over an hour and it was long overdue.

I plowed my ass off and finally got some buying temp spikes. It was on. Whew. Finally positive body language and she was leaning into me now. At the end of dinner, I confidently offered her two options:

  1. We split the check.
  2. I pick up dinner this time if she gets it next.

She chose option #2, stating that she wanted to guarantee a second date. That’s a pretty strong indicator of interest. I bounced us over to a dive bar down the street. I still had plenty of work to do…my mistake from my last date was that there was no kino, so I wanted to correct this and escalate. Once there, I sat her at the bar and stood beside her, keeping my body right next to her. There was a blues band playing, so we enjoyed the music and people watched. We both enjoyed making fun of the crazy characters in the crowd and I kino’ed her heavily; hand on her back, rubbing her shoulders and neck, accidentally brushing her breast with my arm. That type of thing.

We played two rounds of Marry, Date, Dump, but she wasn’t into it. I started to realize what her deal was with flirting, which I’ll get to in my conclusion section below.

Lance’s Pick A Boyfriend Routine

I have this one routine I’ve been doing that seems to work pretty well. I haven’t read about it anywhere else, although I’m sure there are social artists somewhere doing it. But, here’s how it goes. After I have a pretty good handle on the girl, I’ll start picking guys out of the crowd and say, “Dude, don’t you think that guy with the neon blue shirt is hot? Maybe you should go on a date with him.” (This routine follows Marry, Date, Dump in my stack).

The key is to pick a guy that is good looking, but has something douchey about him. For example, he could be a ripped frat guy, but he’s wearing a neon blue polo shirt with a popped collar. She’ll respond with, “No way! Too frat boyish!” or something like that. This is almost like a backhanded qualification tool. Basically, I’m testing her taste in men, and I might disapprove of her if she chooses wrong. I’ll do this to the point where almost the whole bar gets weeded out, and guess who’s left? That’s right, Big Daddy Lance. So, in her mind, she’s left with the coolest guy in the bar, the real prize. I believe it creates a feeling that she needs to be closer to me, because I’m playfully pushing her towards others. I’ve run this a couple of times and it seems to work great. Plus, it’s a ton of fun.

Kino Escalation & Misc.

I kept escalating the physical contact. Towards the end, I was standing between her legs while she was sitting on the barstool. I had one hand moving along her thigh, hip and ass, and the other hand on her shoulder or caressing her neck. At one point I did this little number: I leaned in slightly and whispered, “Hey, I’ve got something to tell you.” She leaned towards me and presented her ear, which I proceeded to bite and suck. The escalation was pretty unconscious, and I’m not sure at what point where it became okay to go from touching her shoulder to touching her leg, but it happened. Cool. This is pretty standard DiCarlo Escalation Ladder, which you can find here.

I did some push-pull. I took my hands off her during a break between songs (ya know, to clap) and she quickly grabbed my hands and put them back on her legs.

I also opened several sets while in the bar. This is a great way to mix things up on a date and keep things from getting stale. Lull in the conversation? Go open a set and introduce them to your date. She’ll see that you have strong social skills and that you’re a “people person.” Plus, it’s a hell of a lot of fun. Another benefit is that sometimes the new set will ask you how long you’ve been together, because they assume you’re already a couple, and this is helpful for cementing the connection. I’ve done this somewhat in the past, but I’m going to add it to my regular repertoire.

We hung at the dive bar for an hour and I had her buying temp through the roof. I knew a makeout was guaranteed. I walked her to her car and that’s what I did: makeout close. I probably could have gone much farther, but I didn’t feel compelled. I want to draw this one out. It’ll be better for both of us.

POST-EDIT: Something I keep forgetting to do, that is say what I think about the girl. I really like Kitty. She’s a real sweatheart and super cute. She works as a speech therapist at a hospital and she’s passionate about helping people; I find that very attractive.


She was fidgety early on and didn’t respond at all to some of my best material. This really threw me. I actually asked her at one point if she was nervous, and she said no, she was totally cool, and I believed her. My theory is that she’s totally uncomfortable, or clueless, when it comes to verbal flirting. Sounds insane, but I’ve met women like this before. I actually think it’s a Leo trait…my former Leo gf was exactly the same way when it came to flirting. I believe the Leo love style is totally direct and blunt. You can basically skip all the clever games and routines and jump right into kino. Further, Leos are physical creatures, and respond best to physical contact. That’s my theory, so if anyone wants to jump in, I’d love to hear perspectives.

The key to this date was persistence. When stuff wasn’t playing out like I imagined, it would have been easy to throw in the towel and call it a night. Instead, I plowed until I got it right.

Not sure what relationship type I’m going for on this one, but the girl is hot and I do want to f-close.

I have to say, I would NOT have been capable of this 1.5 years ago. Sure, it’s a modest success by some standards, but I was tested and I passed. This is a breakthrough for me and I’m totally jacked.


  • http://dadshouseblog.com dadshouse

    Man, what a tough read she was. But sounds like you worked it. Good job. Love the report. I cracked up at the “maybe she doesn’t like my green shirt” comment. So true – you never can tell what draws someone in (or not). The “I think you’re really cute” comment was right on target. Flattery gets you everywhere, especially when it’s followed by a laser gaze of intent.

    dadshouse’s last blog post..Miley Cyrus Sexy Vanity Fair Pics – She’s Younger Than My Daughter

  • http://honeyandlance.com Honey

    You’ve inspired me to do a post on men’s fashions. Fitted shirts are SO important. As are many other things…

    Honey’s last blog post..I Made Out With A Leo And It Was A Pain In The Ass

  • http://www.phantasmagoricdreams.com Becca aka Chaotic Kitten

    I am a Leo. I know several Leos that are just like me. We all want to have the upper hand, be the dominant one. Maybe that’s what was up with Kitty. But then again, I know a total of four Leos, myself included, so I’m not an expert.

  • http://cheekiebacktalk.blogspot.com cheekie

    Lance. You know how much we usually agree with each other, right?
    Well. Not here, possibly.

    First off, if my date played ‘Marry, Date, Dump’ with me, I would see a game right through it and that would be our last date.
    It reeks of weird, man-vibe, and is frankly a little insecure/desperate sounding, to compare to other men like that? (which it is, right, whole alpha/beta male getting a sense of the competition crap) If women did that same thing, what would you say? Ya, needy, weird and desperate. Drop that game fast.

    Also, maybe the fact that she didn’t respond until you said the ‘you’re really cute’ line, is because it sounds like it was the first time the whole night that you were actually genuine. It caught you off guard, and you responded naturally, without forethought.

    I think, IMHO, that any cold responses you did get before that point were due to your ‘ over-playing’ and ‘over-analyzing’ your moves.

    It can feel really weird and awkward for a woman to be on the receiving end of this. We would much rather have one or two well placed, well meaning sentences then a bucket full of what appears to be a rehearsed scenario. Wouldn’t you?

    Oh, and I have used the ‘lie about where we met’ line many times, and yes, it does work! lol.
    One guy and I made up this whole story about how we met at a book store. Another? Well, we met on a dance floor at a local club…of course, it’s funnier if you read the banter.

    The worst line to use? Anything referring to being back online to give it another try…

    So, stop overthinking and overplaying! Sounds to me like you do best when you are just winging it…IMHO….

    And of course, I do still agree with you 99% of the time…

  • http://tangoofconfusion.blogspot.com/ SheComesFirst

    I’m a Leo and I think you are mostly right about a Leo’s style of flirting – it is definitely direct and blunt (at least for me). I’m ok with verbal flirting, but I would much rather just skip all that and get right down to the good stuff. Of course, sometimes that comes back to bite me in the ass because, as it turns out, some guys are freaked out by that bluntness.

    SheComesFirst’s last blog post..Call me old fashioned, but…

  • http://www.theseductionbible.com Bobby Rio

    I’ve got to agree with he Leo assesment.. i fell for a leo who was horrible at flirting. never would have thought i had a chance till we wound up in bed together.

    great story! Love the honesty and insights!

    Bobby Rio’s last blog post..WWE Dive Ashley Massaro Linked to Escort Service

  • http://honeyandlance.com/contact Lance

    I think your read on the situation is correct. Some women love playing those little bar games (marry, date, dump), some women hate it. Kitty obviously hated it.

    When I write about routines and games, it sounds really canned and contrived, but in execution it’s very natural and in the moment. For example, I think telling a cool personal story is essentially a routine…it has a structure, a punchline, and a purpose, that is to get a laugh and reveal your character, and you’ve told the story many times over. Thus, routine. All the other games are pretty much the same way.

    One of the drawbacks of being a Gemini (or a positive depending on how you look at it) is that we’re huge into cleverness and word games. We’re very much mind seducers and less so physical. Leos are less into the word games and more into physicality.

    Interestingly, I met another Leo last night who told me the best way to flirt with her was to tickle her. This was coming from a 26 year old woman.

  • Gina

    I’m a leo too and you are dead-on. I am not a great flirt, very direct and blunt. When there is a natural chemistry w/conversation I see that as flirting that I’m comfortable with. When it comes to complicate matters such as games, tactics — I see right through it. It does of course help when a guy has inner game though as you spoke about. Sorry about your watch—she doesn’t appear to be a leo of integrity! LOL

  • Teddy

    Good read. I liked your game about disqualifying other guys so I’ll share a kino technique i use.

    Guess her age and guess high, but not silly high. when she gives her real age, with a smile, say something like “oh yeah, well it must be the crows feet (stroke her cheek with finger). But dont worry, its nothing a load of mascara wont take care of”

    This passes the hand/ arm touching and goes straight for the face, more intimate. But its a joke al well so you get away with it. Only 1 girl has ever recoiled away from my finger as i done this, so most times it works.

    If anyone got any feedback or other ideas id like to know.